With and without bass drum

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With and without bass drum 2017-10-21T00:35:27+00:00

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  • Lee
    Participant
    Post count: 40
    #689 |

    Practising without bass drum is quite fun and allows me to zone in on just hands and left foot. I was also trying out my K Jazz ride that I’ve hardly used. I bought it new in the 1990s but then decided I didn’t like it that much. I like it much better now after hearing it recorded! Not that I ever get to use it much on my gigs, lol. I also dug out my old 10″ Zildjian Special Recording hi-hats and 12″ Mapex maple deluxe snare which is an early Black Panther model also from the 1990s.

    Just bought a new bass drum mic, a cheap copy of a Beta 52 from Studiospares, only £32! 😀
    https://s1.postimg.org/1lkxvrmtpb/20171018_185259_001.jpg
    https://s1.postimg.org/23azkcs9vz/20171018_185319.jpg

    Trying it out here and also working on overall drum sound using snare mic and built in camera stereo mics. It’s a home recording work in progress. 🙂 Still got a lot of tweaking to do. So bloody hard getting a good recorded snare drum sound! Well, it is with the built in camera mics. They’re very good quality but I realise I need individual overheads that I can position on stands over the top of the whole kit. I think I’ll buy a pair of Behringer C-2 pencil condensers. Should be good enough for my needs and only £53. Also, 3 tom mics and a bigger interface for more mics. Anyway, here’s a little tune for you, just a one take so not perfect. 🙂

    • This topic was modified 10 months ago by  Lee.
    Hector1
    Participant
    Post count: 237

    Lee, many thanks for posting the videos as I have been inspired to catch upon some Bass Comping material as of late and found this to be quite useful -albeit basic to most people.

    http://www.freedrumlessons.com/drum-lessons/snare-bass-drum-comping.php

    But being into rock drumming mainly Prog stuff Jazz is a totally different concept altogether, but its just fun play no serious study being undertaken as too far into the Rock stages now to think about it.But one thing I do like about video 1 is the fact they as you indicated there is indeed no Kick drum in place and for me sounds the better for it.Reason being that if you have a good Bass player in a Jazz setup then they usually are enough to hold that kind of thing down but the Kick can compliment maybe lower tones and backup trombones etc-but in simple Jazz methods I was under the impression that most of those tunes are derived from Percussion playing from more dedicated instruments of choice in rhythms ie:Bongos Congas etc particularly in the Latin quarters etc.

    But everyone to there own as its just my personal tastes on this point.
    Some nice Funk work there too, also was a bit concerned by what looks to be the headphone lead dangling down from a mixer or monitor mixer? Did that distract you at all-because it sure did me LOL 🙂

    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by  Hector1.
    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by  Hector1.
    Mike Monaghan
    Participant
    Post count: 11

    What cool vids – I love your version of Spain!! Always brave taking on a Gadd tune but I love the way you play it.

    Lee
    Participant
    Post count: 40

    Thanks Mike! Yeah, I actually always preferred the Al Jarreau/Gadd version as it grooves hard. Thanks for that link, I’ve not seen it, I’ve only ever heard the studio version.
    Hector, thanks for your reply and you’re right, Jazz is quite a different animal from rock. It’s something I enjoy working on but like latin, it’s a difficult genre to master!

    Yes, I noticed my in-ears cable dangling. Sorry about that, it is quite annoying, lol. 😀

    Mike Dolbear
    Keymaster
    Post count: 79

    Loving the videos Lee and i loved the feel on Spain well done.

    Lee
    Participant
    Post count: 40

    Thank you Mike, much appreciated! 🙂

    Hector1
    Participant
    Post count: 237

    Lee

    just wondering if you had done any work with Linear grooves or rudiments at all during your playing time? I’m currently getting very enthused with this type of drumming, I guess because I like the sound, placement (Single hits) rather than all that machine code Jazz stuff, but most of all the space that it gives you to groove like nothing else Ive tried before, chopping away with cross sticks bounces buzzes etc. I mean I really do like the ruffs etc, also the military stuff or some drum corps playing is good fun. Bit of a sucker when a Military Pipe band or otherwise on the High Street on a Sunday morning. Its very-right get out of bed and get your sticks on the road you Orrible little lad! LOL 🙂

    Seriously though those guys really do play some great stuff, but I watched a couple of Vids on you tube last couple of days with Carmine Appice and have his book which I’m going through at the moment. I mean this Guy is very good as is Hilary Jones from the MD Festival 2000,I know that’s really old now, but remember years ago seeing that and wasn’t quite up to speed with the concept at the time, but was surely entertained with a very credible performance displayed by Hilary with a great personality too.

    Lee
    Participant
    Post count: 40

    Hi Hector, sorry for the late reply. Yeah, I’ve worked on rudiments, mostly flams, drags, ruffs, flam accent, flamacue, doubles, singles, 5, 6 and 13 stroke rolls, paradiddles and paradiddle-diddles. Those are my favourites! 🙂 I’ve worked on them enough work so that most of those seep naturally into my playing.

    You’re right, linear patterns are great. I like playing some of Steve Gadd’s creations, like the one he does between ride and hi-hat. I’m sure you’ve already been playing linear grooves yourself though, perhaps unknowingly?
    For example, if you’ve ever played kick, hi-hat, snare, hi-hat, kick, hi-hat, snare, hi-hat, etc as a groove, that’s linear! 🙂

    Hector1
    Participant
    Post count: 237

    Thanks for the advices Lee,greatly appreciated, yes I really am taking to the Linear thing now and see how it develops but feels nice and comftable and loads of space to focus on embellishments if I decide to apply.

    The other thing I am working on are the 7 stroke rolls-now with Gadd crazy army in mind and have been looking at some John Wooten snare material aswell, no matter how I try to get that roll its just not the same. Is it all doubles or has he ruffed and tapped or what? As the notation indicates a RRLLRRL pattern is it grouped with an unusual sticking pattern or something? Any ideas on that one?

    Lee
    Participant
    Post count: 40

    “no matter how I try to get that roll its just not the same. Is it all doubles or has he ruffed and tapped or what? As the notation indicates a RRLLRRL pattern is it grouped with an unusual sticking pattern or something?”

    Hi Hector. I’ve broken it all down as best I can for you, let me know if there’s anything you’d like clarifying.

    The first thing I’ll say is that there are two flavours of 7 stroke roll. The sticking is identical in both, however, the rhythms are different. Simply put, one has a regular 1/16 note rhythm and the other has a 1 /16 note TRIPLET rhythm. In both cases there’s a louder accented single stroke plus the unaccented double strokes.

    On the official Vic Firth 40 rudiments page for both these 7 stroke rolls, they’re written as starting on the accented single stroke followed by the unaccented double strokes. However, I noticed the audio demonstrations are starting them both on the double strokes and ending them on the accented single stroke. John Wooton is also starting them on the double strokes and ending on the singles.

    That makes it a bit confusing to anyone first learning the rolls as they’re demonstrated in reverse!

    That said, it means there are different interpretations and you can play it four different ways.

    1/16 note rhythm starting: Rllrrll, 
    Or in reverse:  llrrllR

    The 1/16 note triplet version: R_llrrll
    Or in reverse: llrrll_R

    Most of the time,  I play it just as the regular 1/16 note sticking of Rllrrll.

    There’s no ruffs or taps, it’s purely just those single and double strokes as written.

    So now to actually ‘feel’ these,  you just need to think in terms of 1/16 notes and triplet strokes.

    For the regular 1/16 note roll, begin by just counting and playing ‘1e+a’ on the drum as single strokes: simply RLRL. Then play an accented single stroke on 1, but double up each following stroke, playing a double stroke on the ‘e’,  a double stroke on ‘the +’, and a double stroke on the  ‘a’. So you’re turning RLRL into:

    1e..+..a.
    RLLRRLL

    To reverse it, again think single strokes starting on the left hand: LRLR. Then double up each stroke and end on an accented single stroke. So you’re turning LRLRLL into:

    1..e..+.a
    LLRRLLR

    For the 1/16 triplet based roll, just count
    1_’tri-pa-let’, 1_’tri-pa-let’, etc and play R_LRL,  R_LRL, .etc

    Then as with the other one, make the first stroke accented and double up each stroke of the triplet. So you’re turning R_LRL into:

    1_tri.pa.let
    R_LL.RR.LL

    To reverse it,  think ‘tripalet’_1.

     LRL_R turns into:

    tri.pa.let_1
    LL.RR.LL_R

    Hope this helps! 🙂

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  Lee.
    Hector1
    Participant
    Post count: 237

    Top Biryani Lee 🙂 LOL

    absolutely awesome thanks very much,you’re so right about the feel thing aswell etc. Now that I have the triplet idea in mind and really slowed things down again I have realised that I have been playing this in a faster state than I think I can play but hearing a different pattern and the end result was my conflict of interest as to what the brain was telling my hands to play as opposed to the sight playing to brain hands pattern if that makes any sense?

    It was the last part of the notes at the bottom of the page which really snapped me back into the equation, its daft really as it should be straight forward as cheese, but Steve’s roll is so mesmerising and that accent thing really started to bug me.So its been a great exercise to go back to make me realise that you think you’ve been doing it right but then when I heard it the other day I just couldn’t handle it which led to this episode and I’m really glad it did as you have helped a lot with this and its very much appreciated 🙂

    There was one other but I have basically given upon though as everyone or every posting I have made in various directions has just had no responses at all from was the Genesis when in Rome tour Phil and Chester played a Solo on the Bar stools/Chair Called Conversation’s with 2 stools. I actually have discovered a brilliant DVD from the Stables that the band G2 played last year and they filmed a rehearsal show of this and have been trying to follow that, but Like the Gadd thing I probably need to focus on breaking it down and spend more time on the feel for the speed-need to improve my listening skills more toward the analysing of the stickings and pattern as opposed to just sitting there stunned by the technique and performance,being a bit of a Genesis Fan for as long as I can remember its a tough call LOL 🙂

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  Hector1.
    Hector1
    Participant
    Post count: 237

    Lee just watched this from Gavin Harrison and once you get past the first 8 mins of the beginning its just what I have been thinking along the lines of recently and Gavin really nailed so many factors within this field its just awesome and have got a page of notes out of this with ideas and stickings and off to the pad to make some stuff up.

    https://www.drumeo.com/blog/gavin-harrison-drum-lessons/?inf_contact_key=c6b8f5a6483510c3b158addc7ca840bc8e9c153b5e9cf8f8ff67ade89286a097

    Also Apologies as its a Drumeo thing Mike(incase you get to see this) but think it was worth the while 🙂

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